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From: owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller-digest V1996 #765
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 17 1996     Volume 1996 : Number 765



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Binder format
Re: Jumpspace.
Re: Jumpspace.
3-siders (well actually d6 with 1-3 twice...)
Year-by year char gen
Finder's fees
Finder's fees
Sector Data
Addition to Starship slagging
Re: Year-by year char gen
Re D3?
Re: Unwise order of publication!
Jumping Out
Re: Ship Design Formulas
Re: D3?
Re:LONG-- Imperium Games, Starships, future products
Re: Is T4 Innovative?
RE: Is T4 Innovative? 
Re: Yet another Starships review 
Deckplans
Starships Book
Re: Strength of Domain fleets
Re: TCS construction times
Re: Vargr raiders

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:40:33 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Binder format

TSR tried the binder thing with the monster manual.  It sounded like 
a good idea, but they dropped the concept after a while.

I don't know why.  Poor sales?  

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:40:33 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Jumpspace.

On 17 Dec 96 at 13:07, Daniel wrote:

  Also
> could someone tell me what jumpspace is supposed to look like?

In the SOM, it describes what jumpspace looks like.  It says that all 
you can see from inside the ship (and, therefore, all anybody's ever 
seen) is a dull gray, featureless bubble around the ship.

There's a very quick seen in Star Wars that has this same effect, and 
I always use it as a good example of what Traveller jumpspace looks 
like.

The Millenium Falcon is going into hyperspace, and 
for a moment, you see the whiteish-gray tunnel approach the ship.  It 
is only there for a moment, but if you have the film on tape, you'll 
see what I mean.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:40:33 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Jumpspace.

On 17 Dec 96 at 13:07, Daniel wrote:

>        Hello to all Traveller fans.  I have a question so to all you Jump
> space buffs. 

Go get'em professor Hoppe.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:52:28 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: 3-siders (well actually d6 with 1-3 twice...)

>Does anyone know of a mail order or online source for honest to goodness
>D3's?
>
>I've check the local stores with no luck, and I'd like to buy some of the
>real D3's.

Gamescience sells them , Chessex too I believe. I bought three in Lansing
MI, and plan on buying 3 more....Babylon Project uses 6d3 for it's task
system (or will if it ever comes out! Sheesh, you thought waiting for
Starships was bad...)
                                                Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:59:28 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Year-by year char gen

A proposed "compromise" between the year-to-year char gen and the present one:

Keep the normal char gen as is, but add tables that allow you to roll for
each year of the term for "life events" (similar to CP 2020's Lifepath but
oriented toward Traveller), with things like decorations, special duty
assignments...and maybe bad things like injuries (but not death), enemies,
killed family members, etc. A different set of tables for each career path
in T4, plus additions as other careers become available.
        Sound good?
                        Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:10:04 GMT0
From: terry.williams@luton.ac.uk
Subject: Finder's fees

Hi, 
	If this has been discussed previously I apologise but I've only been on the list fro around 3 months.

I'm running an M:0 campaign and try as I might I seem to be unable to find any
guidelines for how many Cr to give my players for discoveries made on scouting 
surveys. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:12:43 GMT0
From: terry.williams@luton.ac.uk
Subject: Finder's fees

Hi,
        If this has been discussed previously I apologise but I've only been on
the list for around 3 months.

I'm running an M:0 campaign and try as I might I seem to be unable to find any
guidelines for how many Cr to give my players for discoveries made on scouting
surveys.

If anyone has any suggestions for how much I should reward them for 

a) UWP survey info
b) High Tech Level Artifacts
c) anything else you can think of :-)

Thanks

Terry Williams 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:46:41 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: Sector Data

Hi folks!

Is there any Sector Data of Core available (not just one Subsector as in 
T4)?

CyA
Buddy
- -- 
# Disclaimer: All opinions stated are only MY OWN.
# Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at 
# ADV - Anwendungsentwicklung
# Graphisch Technischer Bereich

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:16:16 +0100
From: E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
Subject: Addition to Starship slagging

While I think the 'Starships' debate has been done to death on the list,
after having a look at the product I wanted to add a few more points:

Does anyone find the Imperial Navy song featured in the personalities
section sad? It just reads as an updated version of the USMC song, except 
the lyrics are crap. Here's my suggestion along the same lines for Milleau 0:

"God save our gracious Emperor,
Long live our noble Emperor,
God save the Emperor!
Send him victorious,
Happy and Glorious,
Long to reign over us;
God save the Emperor!"

Hmmmmm.......Doesn't read like the far future eh?

Also, the advert on the back page of Starships would put me off buying any
more T4 products if I were a newby to Traveller. Any publisher that exhorted
me to cut out coupons (and therefore destroying the last page of the SSDS) and
"buy MORE BOOKS!!!!!!!" would get nothing from me.

Imperium Games had better get its act together. I'm an avid Traveller fan -
but I had the urge to physically rip the Starships book to bits while I was
reading it - It's what someone in IG should have done to the final draft.

Still waiting for someone to tell me it was just a bad dream.......

Eamon. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:41:47 -0600
From: "J.D. Burdick" <twolf@tfs.net>
Subject: Re: Year-by year char gen

At 04:59 AM 12/17/96 -0500, you wrote:
>...the term for "life events" (similar to CP 2020's Lifepath but
>oriented toward Traveller), with things like decorations, special duty
>assignments...and maybe bad things like injuries (but not death), enemies,
>killed family members, etc. A different set of tables for each career path
>in T4, plus additions as other careers become available.

Sounds fimiliar..Books 4,5,6 and 7.  Good idea.

JD
Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:45:20 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re D3?

Eris Reddoch wrote:

>Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 00:12:06 -0500
>From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>Subject: D3?
>
>Does anyone know of a mail order or online source for honest to goodness
>D3's?
>
>I've check the local stores with no luck, and I'd like to buy some of the
>real D3's.
>
>Eris

        Dunno where to buy a pre-made d3.  Mine I made by filling in holes
on the 4, 5, & 6 sides of a white d6 using liquid paper.  Ugly, but it
works.  And it annoys the hell out of Ross,  who's allergic to d3's, it
seems.

        I'm tempted to do a special d3 just for him by adding dots to the
1, 2, and 3 sides, but I figure he might catch on eventually when the
lowest he ever rolled on a d3 would be 4.


*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| Roderick D. Elliott... rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca              |
|                        elliot_r@lsa.lan.mcgill.ca           |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| "...an imperfect plan implemented immediately and violently |
| will always succeed better than a perfect plan."            |
|                        -Gen. George S. Patton.              |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:45:27 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: Unwise order of publication!

Rich Ostorero wrote:

>>
>>         Hear hear...  It's kinda hard for a lot of people to do a decent,
>> flavourful campaign without a developed background to build on.  That was
>> the most glaring omission in the T4 rulebook, IMHO: little or no
>> background.
>
>It just takes one helluva lot more work to do that decent, flavorful
>campaign. I did my T4 game with snippets from the rules, plus a bit of
>"stone soup" from a _lot_ of places. Example: the Noble career mentioned

[snippage]


        Well, the thing is is that I have a few players who've played
before and who might be annoyed by my suddenly re-arranging Sylea in
non-canonical ways...


>
>>
>>         I'm currently gearing up for a Milieu 0 campaign starting out of
>> Sylea... and will have to make most of Sylea up.  Not a problem, but it
>> just means I'll have to give out a more massive pregame handout than I
>> usually do.  Oh well.
>
>In my game, Sylea is _very_ overpopulated . . . some of the slum towers
>would turn a cyberpunk's stomach, but the nobility live _very_ well.


        I was thinking the same thing; high population density, high income
disparity, heavy urbanization.  As far as absolute poverty level goes,
well, I was figuring on following the "What is poverty at TL-12" sidebar...


>
>Let us know how it goes :)

        Will do :).

*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| Roderick D. Elliott... rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca              |
|                        elliot_r@lsa.lan.mcgill.ca           |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
| "...an imperfect plan implemented immediately and violently |
| will always succeed better than a perfect plan."            |
|                        -Gen. George S. Patton.              |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:04:54 -0500
From: "Nathan & Terri Mezel" <hotchip@oeonline.com>
Subject: Jumping Out

>       Hello to all Traveller fans.  I have a question so to all you Jump
>space buffs.  I was in a campaign a few years ago (MegaTraveller) and we
were
>near the end of an adventure.  We had manage to get on to the baddies star
>ship just before it went to Jumpspace.  Anyway, we were getting our butts
>kicked, so we jumped into the cutter (or whatever it was) which didn't
have
>a jump drive.  We un docked from the ship and floated of in to Jumpspace.
>The Ref didn't have any Idea what do do here, so he kinda made some rules
>up.  Could someone out there please tell me what should of happened?  Also

Here is some more clarification on that subject straight from Yosodraksay
(sic?)
himself.

JTAS #24 pg. 36, Marc Miller writes:
	"Some attempts have been made to launch starships into jumpspace from
other starships (in jumpspace); Problems in properly matching drive fields,
or even turning them on near other ships, has shown the technique is
impractical at best, and probably impossible."

Joe Fugate expands on this some more in the Megatraveller Journal #1. 
Basically he states that since the smaller ship is within 10 diameters of
the other ship's gravity well (small though it is), the smaller ship
automatically misjumps.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:25:23 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: Ship Design Formulas

Ernest N Rowland wrote:

> Jump Drives 1 Parsec             Jump Drives 6 Parsecs
>      Mass  = 0.84 * Hull Size         Mass  = 1.96 * Hull Size
>      Vol   = Mass / 3                 Vol   = Mass / 2
>      Area  = Vol / 3                  Area  = Vol / 3
>      Price = 10% Mass                 Price = 15% Mass
>      Crew  = Mass / 500               Crew  = Mass / 500
>   For all sizes, fuel = 1.4 * Hull Size

        The Jump Drive formula for all Jump Numbers is:

        Volume [m3] = ( Jump Number + 1 ) * ( Hull Displacement / 100 ) * 14 m3
        Mass  [ton] = Volume * 3 (Volume * 2.5 in TL-14, Volume *2 in TL-15)
        Area   [m2] = Volume / 3
        Price [MCr] = Volume * 0.3

        I used this kind of formulas in my starship design spreadsheet,
        but I still had to include several look-up tables for other
        components.


        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:33:58 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: D3?

On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Does anyone know of a mail order or online source for honest to goodness
> D3's?  
> 
> I've check the local stores with no luck, and I'd like to buy some of the
> real D3's.  

The Armory carries D3's.  That's where I got mine...


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:30:28 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re:LONG-- Imperium Games, Starships, future products

On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Andrew Boulton wrote:
> Externally, T4 and Starships look very nice: black, 
> with great, full colour pictures. A quick flip through shows clearly 
> laid out text and more colour pix. Definitely a good-looking product.

I absolutely agrre on this.  Since IG needs to get new players to thrive
it IMHO was a reasonable choice to use Chriss Foss art (there is a good
choice that many people know him if they are interested in SF and thus
your chances are good that they might try *your* game since you utilize
Chris Foss art).

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:23:46 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re: Is T4 Innovative?

On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Harold D. Hale wrote:
> I ask the question, "is T4 innovative?" because I'm trying to think
> of some aspect of the game that is not just a recycling of something
> else.  Could the truly hardcore fans of T4 among us list those things
> that T4 does that have never been done before, or are being done in a
> unique way?  I was discussing T4 with a friend, and came up empty.

I'm not a hardcore Traveller fan but I own many roleplaying games and thus
feel like commenting: no, I don't think that there is anything innovative
about T4.  It's rather a collection of stuff (IMHO some good, some bad) of
things that appeared in past editions of Traveller and people wanted to
see back.  Some things in Traveller (not necessarily in T4) are nice.
Personally I e.g. like the simple way of describing worlds with UWPs in a
very short way (although one needs to get used a little to that).  But
innovative... nada.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:27:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: RE: Is T4 Innovative? 

On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, That Computer Guy wrote:
> From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@strauss2.udel.edu>
> : I ask the question, "is T4 innovative?" because I'm trying to think
> : of some aspect of the game that is not just a recycling of something
> : else.  Could the truly hardcore fans of T4 among us list those things
> : that T4 does that have never been done before, or are being done in a
> : unique way?  I was discussing T4 with a friend, and came up empty.
> Does it need to be innovative, or just good?  Sometimes gimmicks just
> mask flaws.

Personally I don't believe that a game needs to be innovative to be good.
There seem to be a couple of systems on the market which really try to be
different but all the effort amounts to new vocabulary for old stuff and
strange dice methods being used.  I always liked Dangerous Journeys (and
there was nothing truly innovative in it... it just combined good and
tried systems into a new whole).

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:25:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Thomas Biskup <tb@saranxis.ruhr.de>
Subject: Re: Yet another Starships review 

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Chris Cox wrote:
> Thomas Biskup wrote:
> > They (the deckplans) were obviously drawn with
> > some kind of primitive graphics software,. . .
> Unfortunately I think they were draw using Adobe Illustrator (IG was
> looking for someone with Illustrator experience a while back), a very
> nice and professional caliber drawing package.

Really?  Oh :-(  I would have bet my money on something like the basic
paint software coming with Windows 3.1 or so.

- --
Thomas Biskup                               email to: tb@saranxis.ruhr.de
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Would you choose one life over one thousand?
 I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions like that."
                          -- Data and Picard, "Justice", stardate 41255.6

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:10:16 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@datasync.com>
Subject: Deckplans

With all the discussion about deckplans going on, I would like to submit my
few for perusal.  The main two are located just one jump from my PBeM page at:

http://www.datasync.com/~tiger/trav/pbem.htm

They are on the Arkudu Star page and the Diplomatic Transport page.  From
each of these two pages, a jump can be made to detailed plans of some of the
rooms on those ships.  Check them out and see what you think.  I plan to
work on a b&w version for download and printout.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:10:14 -0600
From: Paul Walker <tiger@datasync.com>
Subject: Starships Book

Well, I went out and bought the Starships book yesterday.  I have yet to
read the book yet, but upon glancing through, I must say that I too am
dissappointed.
In case anyone is still keeping track of these things, I have a few comments...

1. I think the picture/stat pages would have been done better using the TNE
format, the picture is in the frame and the page is white rather than the
stats in the frame and the page black.

2. I do not consider the "deckplans" to be true deckplans.  I am happy to
see the virtical aspect of the decks being at least considered, but I am
very disappointed in the "deckplans."

3. I really like the Foss color art.  No, it is not "Travelleresque" (that
word ranks right up there with "canon" on my hated word list).  I don't have
a definition of what is Travelleresque, but some of the Foss pics aren't
what I expect from the Traveller universe, but I do like them and I am
willing to accept some of them .  The ship pics are ok, some of them really
jumped out at me and said Traveller is back, others barely even lifted their
heads and said nothing at all.

Overall (without having read the text) I say that the book is not worth the
full $20 in and of itself, but for completeness sake, I am glad I got it.
If the SSDS is identical to what Dave created, then I will be a bit
disappointed.  As I have mentioned before, SSDS and QSDS need to be related
more than coming from the same parent.  I can't speak on the editing or
writing yet, but I will submit a complete review when I finish reading the
sparse text. :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:10:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Strength of Domain fleets

Edward Swatschek writes:
>Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
> 
>>That is one possibility, of course. Note, however, that those Cr500 per
>>citizens works out at roughly 3% of the GPP (Gross Planetary Product)
>>as defined in _Striker_. And according to _Striker_ the maximum spending
>>in times of war is 15% of the GPP... 
> 
>And realistically even higher in times of total war.  It takes time 
>to translate that into military strength, though, when you don't have 
>the production facilities in place.

Ah, but you have something else. You have the mothballed ships of four
recent years of conflict ready to be recommisioned in 1/10th of the time
and at 1/10th of the cost it takes to build new ones. Surely the Domain
(and propably Corridor) shipyards must have been building warships full
time during the Fifth Frontier War. That's four year's production at
full wartime tax rates hanging around, which would amount to something
like at least 50% of the peacetime navy (Much more if the shipyards
actually expand in size in wartime). And they can be ready in 24 weeks for
the largest of them. That's too long for the ones in Corridor to be
recommisioned in time to be sent off to Lucan (Lucan's order to the
Corridor Fleet arrived in early 1117 according to _Rebellion_), but they'd
be ready a few months later, just in time to welcome the Vargr. And so
would those of the Domain.

In fact, the Imperium may have a lot more mothballed ships than that 
floating around. Remeber that _Arrival Vengeance_ is scheduled for
reactivation in 1123? Given that reactivating mothballed ships is a so
much more efficient way to utilize your shipyard capacity than building
new ships (10 times faster and 10 times cheaper) you would think that
the shipyards would recommision everything they could before beginning
new construction. Since a given shipyard capacity can recommision roughly
3 ships per year, the shipyards at Trin ought to have recomissioned about
18 time their capacity in 1123. Even at 20% of the shipyard capacity that
TCS would give Trin, it would work out at roughly 36 million tons of ship.
If every big Imperial shipyard has similar numbers of mothballed ships
hanging around we can get the Domain Navy up to snuff in very short order.

>The Rebellion Sourcebook has each numbered fleet consisting of 2-10 
>squadrons amounting to 50-200 ships.  Taking another look at the 
>fleet section, it states that each sector has about 1000 ships among 
>it's fleets (counting cruisers, carriers, battleships, and some 
>auxiliaries).

Yes, you're right, except that the figure dosen't include any auxiliaries.

Let's have a look at those figures and see if the Kinunir Syndrome has struck
again: 

That would make the total Imperial strength roughly 20,000 fighting ships. 
Let's double that to account for any and all auxiliaries, scouts, couriers, 
etc. What would be the average tonnage of those ships? Let's say 100,000 
and let's put an average price of MCr 0.75 per ton on that. That would make 
the cost of the entire  peacetime Imperial Navy 3,000,000,000 MCr (or 3,000 
trillion credits). This would make the total Navy budget of the Imperium 
300 TCr per year and account for 30% of all navy spending of Imperial 
planets, making the total amount of money spent on navy and planetary 
defense 1,000 TCr per year. With 15 trillion citizens in the Imperium that 
would make the per capita payment 67 Cr per citizen. This would be nudged 
upwards a bit by unfavourable exchange rates for some planets, so let's call 
it Cr100 per citizens. That's about 0.6% of the GPP for all Imperial planets. 
Does that seem a bit low to you? It certainly does to me. But apparently 
Imperial planets don't use more than 20% of the minimum peacetime budget 
defined in TCS. Well, that does make things a bit tougher for the Imperium. 
But it's not enough to save the Aslans or the Vargr.

There's two possible explanations for the low figure: 1) TCS is wrong and
general economics prevent planets from spending much more than 100 Cr
per citizen in peacetime and 150 Cr in wartime. Or 2) The Imperium felt
so secure that it didn't bother to use it's full potential.

Situation 1) fails the reality test, of course, but I'm not too hung up on 
reality. My particular interest in these matters is consistency. And for 
consistency's sake, the Aslan and Vargr navies would be similarily affected, 
leaving us with the same situation as before only at a lower level.

2) means that the Imperium is worse equipped to deal with Aslans and Vargr
in 1117, but it also means that they can get up to TCS levels given enough
time. They may indeed lose most of Corridor, but for how long? The Domain
will go from Cr100 per citizen to Cr750 per citizen and start a massive
building effort. I suppose that we must assume that the Imperial shipyards
are also only at 20% of their potential max, but even that is impressive.
Remember Mikesh in Corridor? Instead of 200 TCr Squadrons to defend them
they only have 40 to begin with. Still too hard a nut for the Vargr to crack.

Situation 2) _also_ means that every comparable rival of the Imperium has 
fleet levels comparably low, which implies that The Solomani Confederation,
the K'Kree, and the Zhodani navies are similarily underbudgeted (Since the
Aslans and Vargr are so disorganized they may have had full naval spending 
without triggering paranoia in the Imperial High Command  --  though I doubt
it, given the military definition of the word "threat"). That too seems to
fail the reality test given the tensions between them.

There's also the possibility that the average of 100,000 per ship is off
by the missing amount and is actually 500,000. That would mean that a
large number of the battleships are 1,000,000 T ships, each one capable of
protecting a star system from aquisitive Aslans and voracious Vargr.

Or perhaps... Ah, if you look on page 27 in _Rebellion_ is states that the
1000 ship figure includes cruisers, carriers, battleSHIPs, and escorts. Now,
I think that the author propably meant battleriders too. But the text dosen't
actually mention battleriders. So maybe the figure dosen't include 
battleriders. If a carrier plus it's riders are counted as one ship then 
quite lot more firepower can be packed into those 1000 ships.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:28:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: TCS construction times

Michael Nutt writes:
>It was 20,000 ton cruisers he mentioned... IMO, not *quite* big enough, but
>I have pretty radical ideas in building cruisers, at least using the High
>Guard rules.

You may be right. I chose 20,000 for my example because they are the biggest
cruisers that can be bult in the shortest possible time. Besides, a 20,000 T
TL 14 cruiser ought to be more or less a match for a 30,000 T TL 13 cruiser.
If not, we'll just gang up 2 to 1 on those pesky Vargr.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:02:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Vargr raiders

Wes Payne writes:
>According to the 'story,' Deneb and Vland had their own fish to fry, and 
>were unable (or unwilling, perhaps, in Vland's case) to commit sufficient 
>forces in time to prevent the closing of Corridor.

Yes, but this is predicated on the assumption that it would take a lot of
ships to stop the Vargr, which is actually not the case. 

>One resource you keep using, which I lack, is Trillion Credit Squadron.  
>I have no inkling of the assumptions used therein regarding the defense 
>forces that a given world can afford.  

Others have answered this, but it really isn't necessary to know (although
it helps ;-). All you need is to assume that such strength is proportionate 
to the size of the population. In other words, that a Vargr world with X 
people can support roughly as many tons of warships as an Imperial world 
with X people. Oh, and also that Imperial, at least, use roughly 70% of 
their budget on planetary defense forces.

>However, on the question of Vargr 'superpowers,' the relevant MT 
>resources which describe the Corridor invasion mention just these 
>entities.  Apparently, the perceived weakness on the part of Imperial 
>forces, combined with the unifying effect (however transient) of the 
>Oekhsos tirades and the emergence of several powerful Vargr leaders led 
>to a coalition of Vargr nations and corsair bands that was able to take 
>Corridor.  

You're missing the crucial point about the Vargr. Unlike the Aslans, who are 
prepared to pay for the land they take in blood and ships, and unlike the 
Imperium, who taxes their people to build their ships, Vargr corsairs are 
supposed to make a profit. Where an Imperial fleet commander only has to 
worry about wether he can defeat the opponent, the Vargr fleet commander has 
to select a target that he can capture without using too much ammunition, 
taking too much battle damage, AND DOING TOO MUCH DAMAGE TO THE TARGET IN 
THE PROCESS!!! Attacking armed opponents is not a profitable business
unless you have overwhelming odds. So the best defended Imperial planets
would be safe because it would take far too many ships to attack them. It
would take the ressources of 630 billion TL 13 Vargr to achieve 3 to 1 odds
against Mikesh, for example. (Or if it's true that the Imperium only uses
20% of what it ought to on its fleet, a measly 126 billion Vargr). How many
it will take when you consider that the leaders of the Vargr that are 
paying for the ships passionately wants the leaders of the ships to stay
home is left to your imagination).

Secondly, a grand alliance of Vargr leaders is a very strange thing, seeing 
that a Vargr Ruler-type leader has almost diametrically opposite interests 
from a Corsair-type leader. A Vargr leader wants to keep his ships home to 
defend his worlds against the corsairs from further coreward. (If you were 
a Vargr corsair would you prefer to raid a Vargr world a few parsecs away 
or would you go 10-20 parsecs across another Vargr state to attack the 
Imperial and hope you could get your loot back home without being ambushed?)
The Corsair wants to steal the ruler's ships, go to the Imperium and take
over some world and become an independent ruler himself. 



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #765
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